Friday, May 30, 2003
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Message 11 in thread
From: John (john@darkroompro.com)
Subject: Re: PMK developer Tutorial
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-29 00:57:41 PST
On Wed, 28 May 2003 19:09:07 GMT, The-void@ixtlan.>+< (Cacoethes Scribendi)
wrote:
>Funny; in my correspondance with Steve he has never mention you.
Then perhaps you should ask the guy that wrote the majority of the book.
Bill Troop. Also look at the credits.
Regards
John - Photographer & Webmaster - http://www.darkroompro.com
"Reader, suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 12 in thread
From: Dan Quinn (dan.c.quinn@att.net)
Subject: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-28 15:57:53 PST
RE: John wrote
> > You may wish to use WD2D. It is carbonate based and I've read on
> > this NG that it is easier to work with. Dan
> I would consider replacing the carbonate with metaborate which
> does not cause pinholes in emulsion when a stop bath is used.
> John
It's the ACID stop to which you refer.
Mr. Wimberly considered various alkalies when he compounded WD2D.
He chose carbonate as best. Checking at Unblinking Eye, I see that PMK
is the only pyrogallol based developer using metaborate. Had he wished
to compound PMK he could have. He chose to compound WD2D.
I don't believe I have ever read that an ACID stop is THE stop
to use with the above mentioned developers. In fact I doubt that an
ACID stop is THE recommended stop with ANY staining developer.
Sodium carbonate is the sodium salt of carbonic acid, Na2CO3,
H2CO3. H2CO3 may be considered unstable under ordinary conditions.
It will break down into H2O and CO2. As a group ACID stops are best
kept away from a vast number of carbonate based developers, off
the shelf or homebrew. Dan
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 13 in thread
From: John (john@darkroompro.com)
Subject: Re: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-28 22:56:44 PST
On 28 May 2003 15:57:52 -0700, dan.c.quinn@att.net (Dan Quinn) wrote:
> It's the ACID stop to which you refer.
Firstly, is their another kind ? Second, I referred to the use of
carbonate. An alkali that I proved to myself is not going to give me the image
qualities that I like.
> Mr. Wimberly considered various alkalies when he compounded WD2D.
>He chose carbonate as best. Checking at Unblinking Eye, I see that PMK
>is the only pyrogallol based developer using metaborate.
Listed on that site.
> Had he wished
>to compound PMK he could have. He chose to compound WD2D.
Quite some time before Mr.Hutchings created his PMK formula though
pyrogallol/Metol formulas were very, very common some time ago.
> I don't believe I have ever read that an ACID stop is THE stop
>to use with the above mentioned developers.
And exactly what would one use to stop the development of a
carbonate-based formula ? Don't tell me. Water. Sure. That's really going to
stop a carbonate formula.
> In fact I doubt that an
>ACID stop is THE recommended stop with ANY staining developer.
I'm glad that you doubt it but _I_ personally prefer developers that start
and stop when _I_ want them to and to do so as evenly as possible. Therefore I
use an acidic stop bath 1/2 the strength that Kodak recommends.
> Sodium carbonate is the sodium salt of carbonic acid, Na2CO3,
>H2CO3. H2CO3 may be considered unstable under ordinary conditions.
>It will break down into H2O and CO2. As a group ACID stops are best
>kept away from a vast number of carbonate based developers, off
>the shelf or homebrew. Dan
And the converse is that carbonates are not really good for formulating a
pictorial film developers. If they were then manufacturers would have kept using
them as carbonate is almost as inexpensive as dirt, takes somewhat less to
achieve the same level of activity as metaborate and they already had the
formulas compounded and dialed in. The only reasons they migrated to metaborate
are simple. No CO2 bubbles, lower activity level meaning a finer granularity in
the developed image and less clumping of the grains which further enhances
sharpness. I'm sure there are more reasons but hopefully you get my point.
Regards
John - Photographer & Webmaster - http://www.darkroompro.com
"Reader, suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 14 in thread
From: Dan Quinn (dan.c.quinn@att.net)
Subject: Re: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-29 01:44:13 PST
dan.c.quinn@att.net (Dan Quinn) wrote in message news:...
> RE: John wrote
>
> > > You may wish to use WD2D. It is carbonate based and I've read on
> > > this NG that it is easier to work with. Dan
> > I would consider replacing the carbonate with metaborate which
> > does not cause pinholes in emulsion when a stop bath is used.
> > John
> It's the ACID stop to which you refer.
> Mr. Wimberly considered various alkalies when he compounded WD2D.
> He chose carbonate as best. Checking at Unblinking Eye, I see that PMK
> is the only pyrogallol based developer using metaborate. Had he wished
> to compound PMK he could have. He chose to compound WD2D.
> I don't believe I have ever read that an ACID stop is THE stop
> to use with the above mentioned developers. In fact I doubt that an
> ACID stop is THE recommended stop with ANY staining developer.
>
> Sodium carbonate is the sodium salt of carbonic acid, Na2CO3,
> H2CO3. H2CO3 may be considered unstable under ordinary conditions.
> It will break down into H2O and CO2. As a group ACID stops are best
> kept away from a vast number of carbonate based developers, off
> the shelf or homebrew. Dan
Two errors: Rollo Pyro also is metaborate based and "vast" implies
a greater number than was intended. "... away from the numerous
carbonate based ..." is better.
Beutler's, at least one of Mason's, some of Crawley's, and I'm sure
others from many sources, are carbonate based.
Fear not the Fizz. Rinse well in water before an acid fix or a
short water rinse before a neutral or alkaline fix. Dan
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 15 in thread
From: John Stockdale (jo.sto@bigpond.com)
Subject: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-28 06:56:29 PST
John wrote in message news:...
> On Wed, 28 May 2003 00:05:23 GMT, The-void@ixtlan.>+< (Cacoethes Scribendi)
> wrote:
>
> >> I would consider replacing the carbonate with metaborate which does not
> >> cause pinholes in emulsion when a stop bath is used.
> >
> >Then its? PMK?
I hadn't realised that PMK was so similar to WD2D (except for the
choice of alkali) until recently. Gordon Hutchings has written "The
Book of Pyro" about his PMK, and in it there is a page on WD2D which
preceded PMK by many years. If you have PMK part A you can make WD2D
with a little extra sodium bisulfite and, of course, sodium carbonate
for Part B. For 35mm I would expect the WD2D to be significantly
grainier. Has anyone used it for 35mm who can compare it to PMK?
Rafael, Gordon Hutchings book is worth reading. Failing that, a search
here will get you pretty well informed. Your enlarger is fine. A
search will find comparisons of PMK with VC and graded papers.
I have found PMK to not work well (stain-wise) until Part A has turned
quite bright yellow. This takes a few weeks in a half full bottle. I
use it for nearly everything and I find it nearly as easy to use as
other developers. The small inconvenience of mixing is outweighed, in
my opinion, by the exceptionally long shelf life. I mix up a batch
once every 2 years or so.
The aforementioned problem of pinholes in the stop bath is avoidable
by using water stop bath which is normal with staining developers.
Post a follow-up to this message
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©2003 Google
Prev 10
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Message 11 in thread
From: John (john@darkroompro.com)
Subject: Re: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-29 00:57:41 PST
On Wed, 28 May 2003 19:09:07 GMT, The-void@ixtlan.>+< (Cacoethes Scribendi)
wrote:
>Funny; in my correspondance with Steve he has never mention you.
Then perhaps you should ask the guy that wrote the majority of the book.
Bill Troop. Also look at the credits.
Regards
John - Photographer & Webmaster - http://www.darkroompro.com
"Reader, suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 12 in thread
From: Dan Quinn (dan.c.quinn@att.net)
Subject: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-28 15:57:53 PST
RE: John
> > You may wish to use WD2D. It is carbonate based and I've read on
> > this NG that it is easier to work with. Dan
> I would consider replacing the carbonate with metaborate which
> does not cause pinholes in emulsion when a stop bath is used.
> John
It's the ACID stop to which you refer.
Mr. Wimberly considered various alkalies when he compounded WD2D.
He chose carbonate as best. Checking at Unblinking Eye, I see that PMK
is the only pyrogallol based developer using metaborate. Had he wished
to compound PMK he could have. He chose to compound WD2D.
I don't believe I have ever read that an ACID stop is THE stop
to use with the above mentioned developers. In fact I doubt that an
ACID stop is THE recommended stop with ANY staining developer.
Sodium carbonate is the sodium salt of carbonic acid, Na2CO3,
H2CO3. H2CO3 may be considered unstable under ordinary conditions.
It will break down into H2O and CO2. As a group ACID stops are best
kept away from a vast number of carbonate based developers, off
the shelf or homebrew. Dan
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 13 in thread
From: John (john@darkroompro.com)
Subject: Re: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-28 22:56:44 PST
On 28 May 2003 15:57:52 -0700, dan.c.quinn@att.net (Dan Quinn) wrote:
> It's the ACID stop to which you refer.
Firstly, is their another kind ? Second, I referred to the use of
carbonate. An alkali that I proved to myself is not going to give me the image
qualities that I like.
> Mr. Wimberly considered various alkalies when he compounded WD2D.
>He chose carbonate as best. Checking at Unblinking Eye, I see that PMK
>is the only pyrogallol based developer using metaborate.
Listed on that site.
> Had he wished
>to compound PMK he could have. He chose to compound WD2D.
Quite some time before Mr.Hutchings created his PMK formula though
pyrogallol/Metol formulas were very, very common some time ago.
> I don't believe I have ever read that an ACID stop is THE stop
>to use with the above mentioned developers.
And exactly what would one use to stop the development of a
carbonate-based formula ? Don't tell me. Water. Sure. That's really going to
stop a carbonate formula.
> In fact I doubt that an
>ACID stop is THE recommended stop with ANY staining developer.
I'm glad that you doubt it but _I_ personally prefer developers that start
and stop when _I_ want them to and to do so as evenly as possible. Therefore I
use an acidic stop bath 1/2 the strength that Kodak recommends.
> Sodium carbonate is the sodium salt of carbonic acid, Na2CO3,
>H2CO3. H2CO3 may be considered unstable under ordinary conditions.
>It will break down into H2O and CO2. As a group ACID stops are best
>kept away from a vast number of carbonate based developers, off
>the shelf or homebrew. Dan
And the converse is that carbonates are not really good for formulating a
pictorial film developers. If they were then manufacturers would have kept using
them as carbonate is almost as inexpensive as dirt, takes somewhat less to
achieve the same level of activity as metaborate and they already had the
formulas compounded and dialed in. The only reasons they migrated to metaborate
are simple. No CO2 bubbles, lower activity level meaning a finer granularity in
the developed image and less clumping of the grains which further enhances
sharpness. I'm sure there are more reasons but hopefully you get my point.
Regards
John - Photographer & Webmaster - http://www.darkroompro.com
"Reader, suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 14 in thread
From: Dan Quinn (dan.c.quinn@att.net)
Subject: Re: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-29 01:44:13 PST
dan.c.quinn@att.net (Dan Quinn) wrote in message news:
> RE: John
>
> > > You may wish to use WD2D. It is carbonate based and I've read on
> > > this NG that it is easier to work with. Dan
> > I would consider replacing the carbonate with metaborate which
> > does not cause pinholes in emulsion when a stop bath is used.
> > John
> It's the ACID stop to which you refer.
> Mr. Wimberly considered various alkalies when he compounded WD2D.
> He chose carbonate as best. Checking at Unblinking Eye, I see that PMK
> is the only pyrogallol based developer using metaborate. Had he wished
> to compound PMK he could have. He chose to compound WD2D.
> I don't believe I have ever read that an ACID stop is THE stop
> to use with the above mentioned developers. In fact I doubt that an
> ACID stop is THE recommended stop with ANY staining developer.
>
> Sodium carbonate is the sodium salt of carbonic acid, Na2CO3,
> H2CO3. H2CO3 may be considered unstable under ordinary conditions.
> It will break down into H2O and CO2. As a group ACID stops are best
> kept away from a vast number of carbonate based developers, off
> the shelf or homebrew. Dan
Two errors: Rollo Pyro also is metaborate based and "vast" implies
a greater number than was intended. "... away from the numerous
carbonate based ..." is better.
Beutler's, at least one of Mason's, some of Crawley's, and I'm sure
others from many sources, are carbonate based.
Fear not the Fizz. Rinse well in water before an acid fix or a
short water rinse before a neutral or alkaline fix. Dan
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 15 in thread
From: John Stockdale (jo.sto@bigpond.com)
Subject: PMK developer Tutorial
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
Date: 2003-05-28 06:56:29 PST
John
> On Wed, 28 May 2003 00:05:23 GMT, The-void@ixtlan.>+< (Cacoethes Scribendi)
> wrote:
>
> >> I would consider replacing the carbonate with metaborate which does not
> >> cause pinholes in emulsion when a stop bath is used.
> >
> >Then its? PMK?
I hadn't realised that PMK was so similar to WD2D (except for the
choice of alkali) until recently. Gordon Hutchings has written "The
Book of Pyro" about his PMK, and in it there is a page on WD2D which
preceded PMK by many years. If you have PMK part A you can make WD2D
with a little extra sodium bisulfite and, of course, sodium carbonate
for Part B. For 35mm I would expect the WD2D to be significantly
grainier. Has anyone used it for 35mm who can compare it to PMK?
Rafael, Gordon Hutchings book is worth reading. Failing that, a search
here will get you pretty well informed. Your enlarger is fine. A
search will find comparisons of PMK with VC and graded papers.
I have found PMK to not work well (stain-wise) until Part A has turned
quite bright yellow. This takes a few weeks in a half full bottle. I
use it for nearly everything and I find it nearly as easy to use as
other developers. The small inconvenience of mixing is outweighed, in
my opinion, by the exceptionally long shelf life. I mix up a batch
once every 2 years or so.
The aforementioned problem of pinholes in the stop bath is avoidable
by using water stop bath which is normal with staining developers.
Post a follow-up to this message
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©2003 Google
Thursday, May 29, 2003
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/picasso/886/PMK/index.html
Notes on PMK
There is another blog named pmk.blogger.com
Notes on PMK
There is another blog named pmk.blogger.com
